Curse

Ollj · Jul 15, 2005, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Im working on a table that shows all the numbers of all the green "1-3" "5-18" ... numbers for all 0-16 attribute amounts. (all the numbers "from-to")

If that already exists, were?
because mine is all but complete.

It gets interestring on the smaller "from-to"'s like on fire for "1-3" seconds, and theres 40 different of them that are below 11 ( < "x-10" ).
in general You dont want to have a duration of 5 seconds for anything if one more attribute point puts it on 6 and one (or 2) less still keeps it on 5 seconds!

I found out that all the numbers in between 0 and 12 attributes are always the same for the same "from-to" and its basically just round logically from a straight line that goes from attributes(0) to attributes(12).
Theres no exponential or 1/x growdth anywere (apart from the fibonacci numbers used in attribute point spending) so theres no "from-to" that profits , for example, especially from attributes(6), because its rising as straight as possible.

I still dont know how it goes for all of them above 12.

I also found out that 11 attribute points are bad, because their effects-numbers (duration/amount) are round down by -0,85, relative from a straight line from 0 to 12 atributes, mot times.
For example "1-3" ("on fire" for example) lasts only 2 seconds with 11 attributes and 3 seconds with 12 atributes, simular with "3-8 and "4-9"

is this intended?

Phades · Jul 15, 2005, 12:26 PM // 12:26

I believe its the attempt to reward specialization, but in the lower end of the time scale it kinda punishes over specialization, because no real gain occurs.

It would be kinda nice to actually se a table with the druations versus skill numbers, usually its just something i play with while tuning a build to see when the next bump happens.

Silmor · Jul 15, 2005, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Intended? It's how it's defined, I'm sure ArenaNet gave proper thought to their attribute effect algorithms when implementing them. In general aiming an attribute to a level where your most important skill gets that 'bump' is just simple common sense, it's not rocket science, so this is hardly ground-breaking information.

Regarding 12 as the roof for attributes also isn't very productive, although it is the maximum to which you can raise your base attribute, headgear and runes will often boost it beyond that anyway, so rounding off 'green numbers' to encourage specialisation at 12 would make little sense.

Ollj · Jul 15, 2005, 01:28 PM // 13:28

of course i have runes, headgears, that one ele glyph and that one necro spell in mind with that list!

generik · Jul 15, 2005, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Does the benefits increase at the same rate from 12-16 as from 1-12?

Really makes me wonder if sup runes are that worth it....

Silmor · Jul 15, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Well, the numbers increase or decrease in a linear fashion, which means overspecialisation usually isn't a good idea. But a linear decrease in numbers can still have an exponential effect on the skill: for instance Protective Bond at 16 protection prayers will cost 2 energy every time it prevents damage, whereas at 17 protection prayers it will cost only 1. The attribute is raised by one, but the effectiveness is doubled.

Specializing can still be worth it, especially when considering maximum effect and efficiency: an air nuker with 16 air magic will cast lightning orb more powerfully, and therefore more efficiently than an air nuker with 12 air magic - the energy and time spent casting is the same. You sacrifice flexibility, but that's the choice you make.

Ollj · Jul 16, 2005, 12:59 AM // 00:59

its linear.

specializing is worth much if you have skill combos for it in your bar that combine in different ways.
another thing is "spiking", the spell costs the same and reloads in the same time and just does more for a longer time.
flexibility is still nice, but the 8-bar limit makes that hard.

I came into one more interestring thing, after knowing that its VERY linear:
"m" and "b" in: f(x) = m*x +b [were "b" = first green number || "m" = (second-first)/12 ] say MUCH about the kind of spell.
A high first number (and a relatively low second number) makes a good secondary class spell, a high "m" (low first number, high last number) makes it a good primary skill.
You say its ovious, than check what you got in your bar and check that with your attribute points.
Air attunement for exampple is relatively bad with 16 air.

interestring fact is that most elite skills have a really low "m" (most times below 2), that makes them a skill that doesnt care that much about high attribute.
Im not wondering anymore that almost all pvp-pre-builds have the elite of their secondary class!

generik · Jul 16, 2005, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Well, the numbers increase or decrease in a linear fashion, which means overspecialisation usually isn't a good idea. But a linear decrease in numbers can still have an exponential effect on the skill: for instance Protective Bond at 16 protection prayers will cost 2 energy every time it prevents damage, whereas at 17 protection prayers it will cost only 1. The attribute is raised by one, but the effectiveness is doubled.

Specializing can still be worth it, especially when considering maximum effect and efficiency: an air nuker with 16 air magic will cast lightning orb more powerfully, and therefore more efficiently than an air nuker with 12 air magic - the energy and time spent casting is the same. You sacrifice flexibility, but that's the choice you make.

I'm sorry, but how do you bump an attribute to 17? 12 + 1 (headpiece) + 3 (Superior) is only 16...

Tactical-Dillusions · Jul 16, 2005, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

I'm sorry, but how do you bump an attribute to 17? 12 + 1 (headpiece) + 3 (Superior) is only 16...

Exactly, i did the same test this morning. I could not reduce the -2 energy cost for protective bond. Maximum attributes applied/superior protection rune too.
I would like to get to -1 energy cost but i'm sure they will never make it so.

Minwanabi · Jul 16, 2005, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Er, I do it all the time.. I have an 11% +1 prot magic while using skills item in my offhand, and you just cast/cancel/recast, until you get it to 1. I can solo or duo in UW, and grief in random arena =P.

Divinitys Creature · Jul 16, 2005, 06:55 PM // 18:55

12 base
+ 1 hat
+ 3 Sup rune
+2 spell like GoEP
+ 1 from %chance weapon
+1 from % chance focus

= 20 max